"The Greeks and Romans embraced it...and soon afterwards they were history."
That's factually incorrect. The Romans did fine for almost a thousand years. It was actually soon after they embraced Christianity (in 313 C.E.) that the empire fell (in 476 C.E.).

"God got so disgusted with the filth that He gave the earth a good bath."
If you believe the Biblical story then you believe that God killed thousands of innocent women and children with his "good bath." I think it's a sick sort of morality that applauds that kind of slaughter.

LOL! Erik how do you define "innocent women and children"? These people were defiantly ignoring God and going about their own business living immoral and violent lifestyles--it's His right to wipe them out if He wants. One of these days you'll find out just how mighty He is--and my guess is you'll be shaking in your boots.

This devotion brings back some of my former arguments. If you believe the story of the Flood, there are bound to be many innocent men and women, babies, children, animals who perished in this Flood. It does not make sense to believe that God would be so comprehensive in His punishment that He does not differentiate between "good and bad" people. By the way, there appears to be no evidence that the whole world was covered in this Flood. Finally, if you think that they were "bad" in the days of Noah, consider the many centuries of warfare that have ensued since, culminating in WW1 and WW2. Why did God not give the earth a good bath after these two events? What about the drug trade, slave trade, sex slaves and so on? If God finds it necessary to wipe out the human race, would that not be testimony of creation having gone wrong? As God is infallible, that would not make sense, would it?

All things bright and beautiful
All creatures great and small
All things wise and wonderful
The Lord God drowned them all.

Fritz&Erick I do believe both of you are forgetting that this did take place before our lord Jesus was born ,for Jesus died for our SINS,just like what had taken place back in Noas days,may GOD bless you both....

Frits, Because I believe the words in the Bible to be inspired by God and inerrant I trust the words in Genesis 9:15, "I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life." There are still local floods but not floods to end all to answer your question about the wars and why no floods afterward. God's creation is good but the devil is at work in this world and people succumb to the temptations he throws at them. Therefore there are numerous evil actions taking place all around us. We ourselves sin sometimes knowingly and sometimes unknowingly. But that is not because God's creation has gone wrong. That is the devil at work in the world and people deciding to follow his leading. In the end God is victorious over satan which you can read about in Revelation. Through Jesus God gives eternal life to those who believe in the Way. Accepting God's Way means admitting one is a sinner and needs Jesus to be their Savior. I sometimes get the impression from what you write that you give people more credit than you should and that you judge some to be totally innocent and without sin. Only Jesus was that way. Only He could be the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world. Do you have some other understanding of why Jesus came into the world besides to cover our sins?

Janice, you did a wonderful job defending the actions of God. People either forget, or they don't believe God is the creator of this world and it's contents and he can do as he sees fit with us. Even today there are people who die in storms or floods who seem innocent but we forget there is none who are guiltless. By the way yes there has been accounts of fish skeletons or fossilized remains up in the mountainous regions. There has been discussions about findings of water stains upon the rocks in the higher altitudes. Again we do not have to defend Gods word to anyone, let them continue to believe it to be a fairytale, one day when they stand in front of him and give an acount of their doings then they will wish they had believed. Remember the Bible said not to cast your pearls before the swine. This is what is happening when we argue with unbelivers.

Erik - your description of Biblical events is quite child-like. It is the typical "straw-man" version of the Bible and Christianity that weak-minded critics love to attack. You condemn events that you don't even believe happened. Then you use an account of actions from a book you say is completely errant and wrong. You have no purpose except to attack the purpose in other people's lives.

I don't think I've set up any straw man. I'm not condemning the flood, since it obviously never happened; I'm condemning RFTH's approval of a God as callous and short-sighted as Yahweh.
As far as the Bible goes- I've never said that it was "completely
errant." In fact I think there is some great wisdom in the Bible, as there is in the sacred texts of many cultures. To quote Mark Twain: "The Bible contains some beautiful poetry, some blood-soaked history, a wealth of obscenity, and about a thousand lies."

Janice, Jerry and others. If one is punished because you cannot believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, that would be iniquitous. I stated before that you cannot make a person believe under threat of whatever. At best, that person might act as if he/she believes but a true belief would not exist. I believe that the Bible was written by human beings and that the contents can be seen from a historical metaphorical perspective. You may say that it is God inspired or that the various authors just recorded stories. Don't get me wrong! I believe in the existence of a supreme being whom we call God. As soon as you include in your responses the implied "threat" that you must believe the Bible literally or else, you turn me off. I fully respect your beliefs but don't tell you that you are wrong. You will find that, what I am writing about, is an emerging paradigm that is eloquently described by Marcus J. Borg in his books about the Bible, Jesus and God.

Keep studying and questioning Erik and you'll find the truth.
Birds of a feather flock together just as the truth comes to those who practice it.
The apocryphal book of Ecclesiasticus.

Yes I believe the Bible is inerrant, and I believe that God is an all knowing and loving and just God. While I may not understand why God allows things to happen as they do, I do believe this is His choice and will. If I purchase an item and it does't perform as I would like for it to then it is my choice to do away with it. Christ purchased us and we are his. What I don't understand is this is a forum that believes that also, if people are not going to ever believe this way then why try to condem the ones who does believe this way or try to continually attack them. I do not believe the way that a infidel believes so I would not go to a site that is set up to promote that belief and continually attack them. Yes everyone has a right to believe the way they choose and if I can debate with them and I see I cannot change their belief I should respect it. If you don't like being told on this site that you are wrong then you shouldn't express your views so bluntly. If you are turned off when someone tell you what the Bible says then you don't believe the Bible. It is that simple. I dont accept the Quran so if someone tells me I am wrong according to it well that is alright, I will just stick with what I believe. To all who believe the Bible is Gods word given to men for our benefit, I say God bless you and keep believing this way.

Erik - what lies are there in the Bible? Just give me a couple.

On one level it's hard to answer the question. It's like asking what lies there are in Star Wars. Well, it's a made-up story, a self contained fictional universe, so it's hard to call it a "lie." But as far as the Bible is concerned- the notion that God created the earth in seven days, that there was a garden of Eden, that a talking snake tricked people humanity into getting kicked out of paradise, that there were originally multiple Gods (Elohim, "Us" in Genesis) who were actually afraid of people, that there was a worldwide flood that killed everything except a drunk named Noah, that God is a racist and loves the Jews more than anyone else, that there was ever an Exodus from Egypt...and I still have 64 books left.

Those are your opinions, Erik, but they are trumped by God's truth. I want to follow where God leads and not where Erik is going. I hope and pray you will soon find the straight path God has waiting for your return. You are on a slippery slope when you say God is a liar. In God's timing you will be proved wrong.

The founder of Harvard's Dept. of Sociology, Dr. Sorokin, wrote a book in which he studied past civilizations and found that every single one that had a "sexual revolution" ceased to exist within a couple hundred years.

Jerry, thank you for your comments. You stated: "one day when they stand in front of him and give an acount of their doings then they will wish they had believed" and "If you don't like being told on this site that you are wrong then you shouldn't express your views so bluntly." You will note that not once have I said that you are wrong in any of your arguments. I have consistently stated that I respect the comments of others but like to express my views, often in the form of questions. As soon as you say that someone is wrong, you close any debate. My thinking is more advanced in relation to the existence of God than you apparently give me credit for. This forum does not lend itself to debating this more extensively, hence I have been unable to write about how I really feel about all these issues. I state again that it is not possible to force someone to believe under threat of punishment. Have a think about that. Meanwhile, I continue to appreciate your and others' views, as I am learning all the time. My first priority is to have a personal relationship with God.

Erik - how do you know any of that was lies? BTW - Elohim were not Gods. Nobody knows for sure what they were, but you are the only person I know that thinks they were Gods. Anyway, how did the universe begin?

Frits, You are so diplomatic in your approach and careful not to hurt the feelings of others. Thank you. I understand that what you are saying relates to more hearts being won by love and not by fear (threats). I do feel free to comment on this site when I feel someone is wrong in their thinking. I can not compromise about an issue if something is black or white. I will not call it gray for the sake of debate. How can we learn and advance spiritually if we do not express our true beliefs and be willing for someone to point out our error? There is no requirement on this site that you must agree with the person who says you are wrong. I think you are implicitly saying people who say others are wrong are themselves wrong. Somehow this seems like a circular conversation but I hope you understand what I am saying. You need to fully express your viewpoints and just be accepting that sometimes some will think you are wrong on an issue. It is love of God over man's opinion that makes any of us willing to say that someone is wrong. Sometimes love requires telling someone they are wrong rather than going along with their thoughts for popularity's sake.

Janice, thank you for your kind remarks. I try hard to never make these debates personal. I understand what you are communicating to me and appreciate the way you are doing this. I have learned a long time ago never to say that someone is wrong, because our knowledge will never be complete. It seems better to say that this is what I believe, which does not accord to your beliefs for reasons of the Bible being inerrant. I would respect that. As soon someone starts adding the perceived dire consequences for someone expressing a belief that is different to that person, this will be akin to a fundamentalist approach where the person who expresses these consequences does not leave room for anything else. I must say that you, Janice have always been beautifully polite when you so eloquently express your beliefs. I find your comments very helpful! I would prefer to see this forum as a means to express thoughts and beliefs, which at the same time respect all others who are doing the same. It should be a learning experience for all of us to find out why people think so differently from each other.

I'll believe in Erik over God anyday! His summary of the foolishness of the first two chapters of the bible is quite accurate.

God does not show favoritism. He loves the Jews and the Gentiles equally. The difference between the two? The Jews are God's chosen people, set apart at birth to be holy. They are our Lord's "first-born". God used his promise to the Jews to bless the world with Jesus Christ.